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Revision as of 06:42, 4 July 2012 by The E (talk | contribs) (le sigh)
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What canon evidence do we have that the GTD Amadeus was taken out with a single wing of bombers? --Mars 02:22, 5 August 2006 (BST)

Debatable statements?

Which statements in particular made you stick a non-canon tag on this page, The E? I find the mention of "sheath shielding" and Mars's point above as debatable. The rest of the article are fine. - TopAce 09:55, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

  • The current revision is fine without it. What was missing was the bit about there being no canon info on whether or not beams could pierce the Lucy's shields. That said, this article really rubs me the wrong way, as it doesn't show the sources for the various statements, making it hard to find out which statement is definitely canon, and which are only conjecture.The E 13:03, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    • We've never had an operable citation system, unlike Wikipedia. We don't have as many canon sources as would require it to be implemented. - TopAce 14:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Lucifer shields, beam cannons and beam canon

The reason why there is no canon info on whether or not beams would be able to penetrate the Lucifer's shields is that there is no canon engagement between the Lucifer and another beam-equipped vessel. As such, any speculation on this topic is noncanon, with no particular canon information to support either side of the debate. The E 11:22, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

There's plenty of canonical information that supports the notion that beam cannons can penetrate Lucifer-style shielding. Firstly, shields are not used whatsoever in any Sathanas juggernauts encountered, despite being a heavier, more powerful class of ship. This would indicate that Lucifer-style shielding is not practical past a certain point, and if the Lucifer lacked its shielding, it would be rather easy to take down for a superdestroyer. Secondly, the canon explicitly states that the Colossus was designed to counter any future Shivan threat, and then says that the Colossus "can fit six Lucifer superdestroyers within her massive hull"--thus, the implication is quite clear, even if it is not explicit, that the Colossus was designed and built as a be-all-end-all counter to one (or several) Lucifer-class destroyers. Thirdly, beam cannons and beam turrets of all kinds penetrate straight through even the heaviest of shields mounted on bombers and fighters, suggesting that the beams penetrate right through shields by nature of their design and qualities, rather than the amount of power and force involved. Even the weakest AA beam goes straight through shields, despite doing only marginally more damage than non-beam weapons of the FS1 era. Lastly, there is no way the GTVA would invest 20 years and huge amounts of resources into building a super-ship that could not fight a Lucifer-type threat that was the lynchpin of the entire First Shivan Incursion. Given how the Lucifer was the key to that whole war (its presence and efforts were more of a threat than the entire rest of the Shivan force combined, and once destroyed, the rest of the Shivan forces were cleaned up with relative ease), it makes no sense whatsoever for that kind of huge investment to be made on something that could not do the most important part of its explicit design goal. If the Colossus couldn't fight a Lucifer, then the GTVA--unless all ruled by utter morons--would have invested those resources and efforts into something that COULD, instead. - SaltyWaffles

All of this, however, is beside the point. In FreeSpace Canon, Gameplay > Tech Room. There are no further levels, any speculation based on this is pure fanon. Which means that, since there's no CANON battle between a shielded Lucifer and a beam-equipped vessel, we just do not know whether beam weapons are able to penetrate capital-grade shields. Hell, if we take the Lucifer exactly as it appeared in FS1 and pit it against any vessel, its shields would prove to be impenetrable (since the Lucy is actually invulnerable through most of FS1). As such, I stand by my assertion that the available evidence provides no firm clues, since the only evidence in favour of this theory are the (in-game) theories developed by the GTVA, which were neither confirmed nor falsified during FS2. The E 11:42, 4 July 2012 (UTC)