User talk:Grunt minion22

List questions below.

Grammar etc

Reading your recent addition to the Boadicea Vet comments gives me the impression that english may not be your native language. This: "It doing so in the second mission is all part of the game files. Otherwise, those parts remain there, with some of the asteriod turrets roughly floating away from the ship by several meters." Does not really make sense. The E 15:38, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

• English IS my native launguade honostly. Its just that I do have issues wording things around about due to a damn learning disability that involves writing. It does bring inconvinances of it not making any sense and I'm sorry for the inconvinance. Grunt minion22 3:24pm , 11 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Try to rephrase the above sentence, then. The second version will be better. The others can help make it better. That's the great benefit of a wiki-style project. - TopAce 21:53, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Shivan fighter/bomber stats

What's your source for your recent edits regarding canon Shivan fighters' stats? Those aren't in the retail tables, so whatever you found is supposedly non-canon. - TopAce 23:33, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

• Odd, this is what I was using: just plain old 3.6.10 SCP edition, and I had a table file that was from the root.vp file from retail FS2. I used the trick very similar to the Fly as a capital ship glitch to view their stats. I booted up the game, and went to the mission containing that had the normally unflyable shivan ships as alpha 2, 3, etc. I clicked on them and it gave me those stats located in the top left hand cornor. Those ships were NOT modified at all what-so-ever. What might be the issue of this is, that the armor value is problaly evaluated by the Density and Mass of the ship, (as seen on the table files when u look at them on wordpad), and is placed on a scale that gives the ship its armor value. For manuvurability, it depends on its rotation time for it to make a full 360. You problaly do already know of this, but there is a +armor, and manuvurability for the flyable ships at the begining of its tech-file, where the game will say its armor and manuvurability description where you would normally find it, but for here, it is based off the values give its actual armor value (as with the known issue of the GTB Atremis D.H. not being any superior to its normal counterpart despite being listed as being superior in terms of manuvurability). If there is any inconvinance, then I'm sorry. I was posting what I thought would be canon. Grunt minion22 7:01pm 3 December 2009
  • They appear to be hard-coded. I do not believe they were there since retail and must have been added by the SCP. They are thus non-canon and do not belong on the Wiki. IMO. - Snail 16:20, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
    • No problem, Grunt, but please next time explain where and how you found what you found, especially for stuff that people cannot determine by simply looking at the retail tables. - TopAce 17:44, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
      • I think the only thing left now is to find out for certain if those things were added by the SCP or not. If they were added by the SCP I think we should remove them. - Snail 17:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
        • Alright, I did some toying around with the GTF Ulysses by first removing the +Maneuverability at the begining of its stats in the table file that you can extract from the root.vp retail file, then going down to $Rotation time, then made its maneuverability worse by adding extra 0s onto end of the 3 datas there (3.0, 2.6, and 5.0). Saved, booted up the game, went to a mission where the Ulysses is flyable, and it said its Maneuverability "Extremely Poor". If you have any other table files in your table folder, you problaly need to modify them as well if they do anything about the Ulysses. This confirms that what I have been saying is not false, and there is a setup within the actual game that gives you the ships "True" maneuverability and armor values based on the values in the tables that detrimines actual ship performance (such as rotation ship, density, mass, etc.) and the game puts it on an average scale and gives you feedback. What I DON'T know is if this is from the SCP edition or not. Grunt minion22 3:51pm, 4 December 2009
• Confirmed. I tried it with the Hercules, and it does modify the given ship's descriptive stats. In the Ulysses's case, I suppose the engine looked at the highest value (5.0) and judged its maneuverability based on that. - TopAce 22:05, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Seriously, as I have explained here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=66830.msg1326426#msg1326426 this auto-assignment of classifications is a SCP addition. It was not present in the retail sourcecode, as a result, those classificatins are non-canon. The E 13:11, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

• Regardless, I STILL got those stats from the retail vp. files themselves, if it takes the SCP edition to view them, then so be it. Then explain this: how the heck are all the regular flyable fighters themselves stats are viewed? Grunt minion22 9:47am 23 December 2009

Those stats are defined in the ships.tbl entries for those fighters. Player-flyable ships have these fields: +Type: XSTR("Strategic Assault", 2957)

+Maneuverability: XSTR("Poor", 2958)

+Armor: XSTR("Ultra Heavy", 2959)

+Manufacturer: XSTR("Nankam Aeronautical", 2960)

+Description: XSTR(" ", 2961)

(Taking the Ares entry as an example)

As you can see by the "+" in front of those entries, they are optional, meaning that the game will accept ships.tbl entries without them. The shivan ships lack those optional fields. In other words, if you make those ships flyable by altering tbl entries, you will not see those strings in retail, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THERE. If you do the same using FSO, those stats will be autogenerated and then displayed.

In conclusion, the other ship stats are canon, because we have definitive statements from :V: in the form of the tbl entries. The shivan stats you dug up, however, are not canon, because they are an interpretation some SCP developer made. Clear now? The E 15:55, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

• When I removed the +maneuverability, and made the rotation time worse by adding a bunch of 0s, i saved, booted up the game, and that ship i modified maneuverability actually gave me feedback. Instead of Very Good, it said Extremely poor. How do you explain that? Or instead, we can make a seperate stat bar for each ship, with above it saying "This is not canon unless comfirmed by Violation etc." and place those stats there. Grunt minion22 8:38am 24 December 2009
  • These are SCP additions. Volition won't canonize them ever. - TopAce 14:43, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
    • Did you use the retail executable? If not, then whatever you saw was not canon. Now, you asked me to explain this. I invite you to get a copy of the FSO source code, open the file code\missionui\missionshipchoice.cpp, find the function ship_select_blit_ship_info(). Scroll down until you see where sip->maneuverability is checked. As you can see (if you know how to read c++), the game assigns a fitting category based on the $rotation_time tbl value. Now, retrieve the original sourcecode Volition released. Open missionshipchoice.cpp. Go to ship_select_blit_ship_info(). You will not see the same functionality. Ergo, if you simply mark Shivan ships as flyable in ships.tbl, You will not get those categorizations. Ergo, they are NOT CANON. Ergo, if you wish to add these categories to the wiki entries, they need to be marked as non-canon. The E 15:05, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
      • Ok then. Thanks for clearing it up. Its hard for me to test anything on retail since only SCP works for my pc now. I was just suprised of snail bringing something that happened 2 weeks ago. Since it looks to be non-canon, we will just simply put it behind bars and never speak of it again. Alright? Grunt minion22 12:30pm 24 Decemeber 2009